The rest of the Wikipedia article on World War II service is, as others have noted here, quite inconsistent. One possible explanation for his not being mentioned on this, or vocal generally on World War II, is that I found him listed in Halliwell's Filmgoers Companion as born in 1933. So, too, were many U.S. soldiers who had done battle in the Pacific, where the Japanese treated U.S. POWs with casual brutality. They clearly violated the Geneva Conventions and "were technically guilty of war crimes.". We don't have to resolve the discrepancies, but we should at least note them.
The piece on Durning does not refer to any military units, does not claim that he landed in Normandy on D-Day and credits him only with a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. The "confusion" regarding Mr. Durning's service is far more extensive than has been touched on here. [AlanM1(talk)] 00:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply], More Durning documents have turned up. "Oldbubblehead (talk) 04:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply].
For example, tankers were returned to armored units, specialist troops (rangers, paratroops, etc.) I have known of Charles Durning as an accomplished actor for many years. He is not credited for being in Star Wars at IMDB. As Kampfgruppe Peiper passed by these Americans, an SS soldier suddenly stood up in the back of his halftrack, aimed his pistol, and fired it twice into a group of U.S. prisoners. Is Archaeology Due for a Sexual Revolution? Web#VeteranOfTheDay Army Veteran Charles Durning - VA News Todays #VeteranOfTheDay is Army Veteran Charles Durning, who served as an infantryman during World War II and The fact is mentioned, but a reliable source (e.g. Within a few weeks of Malmedy, one U.S. unit had machine-gunned sixty German prisoners to death in a small Belgian village called Chenogne (see Death at Chenogne). Furthermore one should keep in mind that all survivors to the massacre, i.e. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. "I never meant to say that the conservatives are generally stupid. Again, Charles Durning is nowhere to be found among these men. 6991 Guard Company. Theres terror and repulsion in us, the terrible spot that we dont talk about. Again, Durning is not listed. He survived the Malmedy massacre when German soldiers opened fire on nearly 90 prisoners of war. I suspect that Hollywood, took some liberties with the real truth of his combat service. Colonel David Pergrin, in charge of a company of combat engineers who were all that were left to defend Malmedy. The Germans killed everybody! they shouted at Pergrin. I was impressed with Mr. Durning's military history. It was the start of a long association with Papp, who cast him, often as a clown, in 35 plays, many by Shakespeare. After a fierce fight in Normandy, the Americans and British had broken out of their beachheads at the end of July and sent the Wehrmacht reeling backwards, ceding vast areas of France and Belgium to the U.S. armored divisions of the First and Third Armies and the British Twenty-fifth Army Group.
Charles was the ninth of 10 children, and five of his sisters died of smallpox or scarlet fever in childhood, three of them within two weeks. Again, am reluctant to cast aspersions, but not many men advertise their valor awards, but refuse to clearly state what units they served in. Then the SS men began to walk among the injured and the dead, pistols out. There are no original sources, official documents or corroborating accounts by those he served with that validate his stories. His work in That Championship Season, first produced at the Public Theater, led the film director George Roy Hill to tap Mr. Durning for the part of a corrupt police lieutenant in The Sting. Two years later he played a beleaguered police hostage negotiator squaring off against Al Pacinos manic bank robber in Sidney Lumets celebrated Dog Day Afternoon., The 1970s and 80s were fruitful years. With the greatest of secrecy, aided by winter weather that kept Allied planes on the ground, he assembled a huge force of 250,000 men, 1,400 tanks, and 2,000 artillery guns on the eastern edge of the Ardennes. The farmer, Henri Lejoly, watched in horror as the Americans screamed and cowered as the machine gun bullets tore them apart. It's right at the beginning of the movie. But, there is no way Durning is the second most decorated hero of WWII, see Audie Murphy and Matt Urban. Even at the headquarters of the Supreme Allied Command, it was at first thought that this German attack was a feint, a prelude to another main attack someone else along the Allied lines. The Battle of the Bulge started on 16 Dec 44, and the Malmedy massacre happened on 17 Dec 44. - After being wounded in Normandy, Mr. Durning was declared fit for duty on 6 Dec and transferred to the 10th Replacement Depot (in England) on 12 Dec 44. discussion above, today's AP story on Mr. Durning's death says he was "captured in the Battle of the Bulge and survived a massacre of prisoners." I can't understand why you're so emphatic here, but so unwilling to prove your case in public. It's a shame he is not more forthcoming; such vagueness merely arouses suspicion. Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.160.21 (talk) 03:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply], Every time I watch Star Wars episode IV (1977), I am certain I see Charles Durning as a foot soldier, Trying to defend the ship as Princess Leia records her message to Obi Wan in R2D2. (2000). - Are we supposed to believe - as some accounts hold - that after being levied out of the 386th AAA (AW) Bn, after being sent to Normandy as a replacement, after being wounded and after spending five months in a hospital recovering, that Mr. Durning returned back to the very same 386th AAA (AW) Bn he joined in '43? He looks VERY different than he did since O Brother, Where Art Thou?has he had some sort of stroke or heart attack or some kind of palsy that's affected his speech? He worked as a farmhand and did other menial jobs before moving to Buffalo, where again he took odd jobs.
He had probably ordered an attack by his unit, which caused the deaths of forty-three Italian civilians in the village of Boves, Italy, in 1943, and in numerous actions against partisans in Russia, his unit deliberately burned villages and killed Russian civilians. That at least would acknowledge the elephant in the room. Please take a moment to review my edit. He was one of the military masterminds of The Invasion of Normandy that also landed at Omaha Beach. WebCharles Durning, a second World War hero who became one of Hollywood's top character actors in films like The Sting, Tootsie and The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, has died, a New York City. Charles Durning served his country with honor and with great personal sacrifice. He does not appear in the list of survivors. Durning does not appear in either the muster reports or morning reports of any of the units involved. It had much to do with the nature of the wounds, and the length and location of hospitalization. Most of them attempted to make their way back to Malmedy, some wandering for days before they returned. In conclusion I still have strong doubts about this story and I think that one should check for more reliable sources before writing that Mr. Durning is a Malmedy massacre survivor. Why Didn't 60 Minutes Push Back on MTG's "Pedophile" Smear? I could find no trace of this on the website of the French consulate. 5. They are not survivors although they escaped the massacre. He must have escaped one of the other shootings of prisoners and joined the 398th afterward- unless he was in one of the other units represented. Charles Durning, who overcame poverty, battlefield trauma and nagging self-doubt to become an acclaimed character actor, whether on stage as Big Daddy in Cat on a One one side they are based on the testimonies made by the American survivors, which must been seen as relations made by guys who had escaped to an almost promissed death, who were under shock, often wounded and who had some difficulties to make a coherent relation of the facts. He spoke at memorial ceremonies in Washington, and in 2008 France awarded him the National Order of the Legion of Honor. Wikipedia says no primary sources and the military record is a primary source. --rogerd (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], I had the priviledge and honor to meet Charles Durning some years ago, when I was on The Los Angeles St. Patrick's Day Committee, and we made him "Grand Marshall" for the parade in Hollywood. Unfortunately, Durning is very frail and his conversation is a bit wandering and imprecise. The French document being discussed is not. I really think that this aspect of the massacre is well documented and available to every historian. But at the end of the proceedings, all seventy of the SS men, as well as Peiper, had been convicted of war crimes by a six-man panel of U.S. officers. I have put some editing only text above the section warning editors not to edit that area. [4] Given the scores of thousands of trained infantry replacements prepositioned in Britain in anticipation of D-Day casualties (over 88,000 replacements of all types had been 'stockpiled' in the UK by 7 Jun 44), it defies belief that the Rangers would accept a last minute replacement who was not even infantry qualified. http://news.yahoo.com/durning-king-character-actors-dies-nyc-075353360.html, Sca (talk) 14:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], While the article notes there appears to be some confusion at Durning's war record (which unit he was with at any particular moment etc), I think the Third Army [art needs to be clarified. His combat experiences were harrowing. Massive confusion was the order of the day. For whatever reason, Battery B proceeded along its designated route until it came to a crossroads about 2.5 miles (4 km) east of Malmedy, which the Belgians called Baugnetz but the Americans referred to as Five Points, because five roads intersected here. 03 Apr 2023 01:55:49 One of them may be the finest actor I have ever seen. Has he really said this. He was nominated for the Acade In the Parade interview, he recalled the hand-to-hand combat. It had seen relatively little frontline duty and was filled with numerous green replacements. WebSix survivors of the Malmedy atrocity return to the field where SS troops of the First SS Panzer Division shot and killed 86 unarmed American soldiers on December 17, 1944. According to testimony at the war crimes trial, Major Poetschke was heard by a U.S. soldier who understood German telling a Sergeant Beutner: You know what to do with the prisoners.. It also states that Durning was drafted in 1943 at the age of nineteens shortly before his twentieth birthday. Hell, I dont have an image. He later told The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that he was driven by fear the fear of not being recognized by your peers.. To this day it is uncertain if the Germans would have shot the Americans had they not tried to runmany German soldiers present later claimed they were merely killing escaping prisoners. However, surviving Americans distinctly remember the German order to kill coming before any of the POWs tried to escape. Not because I wuld think that Mr. Durning did not do his duty during the war. Charles Durning, right, with Dustin Hoffman, in a scene from Tootsie in 1982.
I was watching Everwood this evening, and I saw Mr. Durning on it. He could play gruff and combative or gentle and funny. Depot/ Repl. I am proposing the following as a new section on the Charles Durning page: "Controversy Surrounding Military Service - Many of them had run away at the first sign of the German attack. By the time the war ended, the U.S. public knew all about the Malmedy massacre and clamored for revenge. The trials were deliberately held on the site of the Dachau concentration camp, to garner maximum symbolism from the event. In fact, this is what happened. Every so often he landed a bit part in a play. 2. After the war, still mentally troubled, Mr. Durning dropped into a void for almost a decade before deciding to study acting at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York, he told Parade magazine in 1993. Terrified U.S. soldiers in the field suddenly began to run. In 2008 the Screen Actors Guild gave Mr. Durning its Life Achievement Award, as if to dispel any lingering doubts he had about being recognized by his peers. There are links to articles on the medals with pictures of them there. Found this on Youtube which I thought some members might find interesting. Sergeant Beutner then stopped a halftrack that held a 75-mm cannon and attempted to depress its barrel low enough to aim at the prisoners in the field. Division. I would however draw you attention to the fact that this sentence merely concerns the way the event has been related in many books, i.e. Discuss here please. So when was he a member of Third Army, during or after the war?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], It seems to me we should be able to track down (and then link to) Durning's Silver Star citation, which would provide date, circumstances and probably unit of assignment at the time. His big break came in 1962, when Joseph Papp, founder of the Public Theater and the New York Shakespeare Festival, invited him to audition. I do belive that the edit should stand, however. - On the other hand, if he were assigned to the 398th Inf Regt upon discharge from the hospital - as most accounts reflect - that raises even more serious questions. Standing in the barren field outside of the town of Malmedy on that cold early afternoon in the winter of 1944, they smoked and joked with each other. In that respect I would draw you attention to the fact that one should make a distinction between the survivors, i.e. Nightmares are indeed an indicator of PTSD, but not everyone who has experienced stress or has nightmares is suffering from a "disorder". In Belgium he was stabbed in hand-to-hand combat with a German soldier, whom he bludgeoned to death with a rock.
Apparently no-one from the 398th Infantry Regt at Malmedy, it wasn't at the Bulge. Up and down an 85-mile (136 km) front, mortars, rockets, and heavy artillery shells literally blasted American troops out of bed or shook the ground around their frigid foxholes. The list of survivors of the Malmedy massacre is very well known and Durning's name does not appear in it. This does however not mean that he did not do his duty during WWII. -- Lebob ( talk) 12:13, 26 December 2012 (UTC) Please note, however, that the Malmedy Massacre was not the only massacre of prisoners to take place in World War II. We should remember the tremendous contribution of the Queen Mother to the war effort: Could not place the name till you mentioned the NCIS programme. The charge of exaggerating one's military record is a very serious one (see Jeremy Michael Boorda), and needs to be backed up by evidence. I wonder whether it might be able to get some rock solid sources on this. He was 89. This may have been a mistake or perhaps not, but it would explain why an actor, in an age sensitive business, would not want to publicize a World War II war record. Before an attack against the Germans on December 21, four days after the massacre, the headquarters of the 328th Infantry sent out an order that read, in part: No SS troops or paratroopers will be taken prisoner but will be shot on sight.. For his injuries, Durning received his 2nd Purple Heart. I'd also hope that other identified incorrect entries be removed from the article, such as earning 3 Puprple Hearts (he earned just one); serving with the 1st Division (he did not) and receiving campaign credit for the Battle of the Bulge (Ardennes Campaign - which, again, he did not); Oldbubblehead's research has proven those elements invalid. There is no reference to the Reynolds quote, so it is not really relevant to the article. Asteriks (talk) 18:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply].
Durning stated he took part in the D-Day landings, and the article notes he was with 1st Infantry. (Perhaps eleven men of Battery B had been killed in the initial attack.) One of them crumpled to the ground. Of course there were other shootings in the Battle of the Bulge, some also by KG Peiper. I furthermore noticed that these websites often copy that material from one to the other (which means nobody actually checks the accuracy of that information). WebWilliam J. Stepp - 12/23/2009 . Alongside Paul Newman and Robert Redfords con men, Mr. Durning was a crooked cop in the 1973 movie The Sting; starring with Nick Nolte, he was a dedicated assistant football coach in North Dallas Forty (1979); in the shadow of Robert De Niro, he was a hypocritical power broker in True Confessions (1981).
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